The Voices of Union County NJ

[otto]

This is possibly THE question for Congress to ask Judge John G. Roberts' during his confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Justice. The balance of power between the three branches of our government here in the U.S. may be at dire risk due to a long-time loyalty between the nominee and the President. The answer to this question may stop the nomination process in its tracks if the answer reveals that loyalty between friends trumps his loyalty to do justice.

Let's imagine for a moment that a member of the Bush Administration was pardoned by the president after being indicted for say, leaking a CIA undercover agent's name to the public. And let us also say for the purposes of this question that the Executive Clemency order was issued after the indictment was proffered but before the case was prosecuted. The very timing of this pardon would virtually steal the golden fleece of justice from American citizens before our Justice system could work its magic.

So then let's further imagine that the federal prosecutor had no choice but to challenge the legality of the executive branch's pre-empting the full and fair prosecution of the law.

Now, finally, here's the question to be posed to Judge Roberts...- "If the President issued this imaginary pardon BEFORE the conviction, and the resolution of this imaginary case came all the way down through the system to end up on your docket, how would you, as a Justice of the Supreme Court, likely rule?

"Bearing in mind, of course, that the subject being prosecuted might well be innocent. Or guilty. We'd never know for sure unless you issued a verdict against the President, finding it to be an abuse of power. Now for the purpose of this question, let's say that the pardoned subject was very close to the President himself, having been a member of his immediate Cabinet ever since the beginning of the first term in office. And because of his position, likely knew and could provide testimony against the very person who had actually cooked up this foul conspiracy and set it in motion in the first place.

"If only he could be compelled to testify. And that's the real twist to this whole puzzle we're asking you to solve. Let's say that due to strong loyalty and friendship, this person could not be compelled to reveal the source any other way than by being threatened with the possibility of prosecution and the resultant serious jail time for criminal conspiracy and obstruction of justice.

"Now wouldn't that be a fine kettle of fish if, by the sheer timing of his pardon, the President was allowed to protect himself, or perhaps shield some other guilty party in his Administration from prosecution for this most serious offense against homeland security?"

Now before you, dear reader, accuse me of a most fantastic flight of fancy that would never actually come to pass in the real world, let me explain. I didn't just pull this specter of an inopportunely timed pre-emptive pardon out of thin air.

In fact, I am only reframing an earlier case that actually set a legal precedent, which was pulled off by none other than George H.W. Bush. That's right, the father of our current president, and former head of the CIA successfully kept special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh from exacting justice for crimes committed during the Iran Contra illegal war which was secretly run out of the basement of Ronald Reagan's White House.

You may recall when members of the CIA illegally traded arms for the crack cocaine that then saturated our West Coast neighborhoods and then somehow U.S. citizens who were being held as hostages in Iran got mixed up in that very clandestine and very, very illegal deal.

Unfortunately, you and I will likely never know the answer to who masterminded that one because Poppy Bush actually did order Executive Clemency for those whom Special prosecutor Walsh had just nailed. But did Bush Sr. have an act of compassion in his mind, or was he motivated by loyalty and self-preservation? And did this act harm the best interests of the citizens of this country?

Because wasn't this an abrogation of Judiciary power by the Executive Branch? It is now obvious that a proper determination of the Weinberger Six's fate by our court system could have stood as a very real deterrent to those now in the Executive cabinet who committed the very real and very dangerous crime of spotlight-the-agent.

Allowing former Defense Secretary Casper Weinberger and five others to skate away scot-free from their heinous actions likely did more harm than anyone ever thought possible.at the time. Besides making it possible for others higher up in that earlier Administration to avoid any threat of embarrassment or inconvenience that an indictment might have rendered, it also set a dangerous precedent and virtually guaranteed that there would be an escape plan for future White House Cabinet members as long as the President could be tied to the crime solely by the threat of their testimony.

All future Presidents could be virtually forced to shield his cabinet from prosecution. He would be required to protect himself from being tainted with the ever-standing threat of any- or- all being plea-bargained into (at the very least) tying him (or others in the Cabinet) with foreknowledge of virtually any crime.

The well-timed Presidential pardon is thus a program which provides Plausible Deniability Version 3.0 for the entire posse.

On Feb. 28, 2001, House of Representatives Judiciary Committee held hearings on the constitutional limits of the President with regards to the power of Executive Clemency. During those hearings, one member eloquently expressed his opinion that "Improperly exercised, the pardon is a travesty of justice—an act borne not of mercy, but of tyranny"

Besides pardoning his Secretary of Defense, Bush Sr. also ordered that the records produced as a result of the Iran Contra hearings be permanently sealed from public disclosure. Executive Order 12356 (also known as the "Weinberger Declaration") classified that material as "Top Secret" due to the probability that the material within would cause "exceptionally grave damage" to our national security. Yet his pardons weren't determined to pose a treasonous threat, because they were held to have only possibly protected him from prosecution.

It is notable that he proclaimed that the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism."

Yeah, right. They're Patriots.

Now according to Alexander Hamilton the ''power of pardoning in the President has...been only contested in relation to the crime of treason.'' The delegates to the Constitutional Convention believed treason was a crime leveled at ''the immediate being of the society''— an offense meant to strike at the heart of America's institutions and values. Article III of the Constitution includes giving aid and comfort to the enemy in its definition of treason. In 1999, George H.W. Bush said "... I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious, of traitors." But Gee Dubya obviously disagrees with that assessment. It's loyalty above all else in HIS White House.

Now in their twisted attempt to shield whoever in the Bush cabinet leaked the name of a CIA undercover agent to the press, supporters of the current President have done everything from downplay the importance of the position of the CIA's undercover agent to question the intent and the patriotism of those who support her. The act of downplaying her position is important to the upcoming fight over the question of whether the act itself constituted treason.

What it will ultimately come down to is a test between the branches of government and Judge Roberts' loyalty to the President who he had worked for during the election debacle of 2000.

You remember, that's when Al Gore got more votes for President but was prevented by legalistic maneuvers by Roberts and others, in (of all places), - the Supreme Court.
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80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on.

[Puffnutt]

Otto! Your still with the now out of the news Joe Martin nothing.

There was never really anything there anyway, and the Liberal press has moved on to Judge Robers.

It's oooooooooooooooooover!
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[Qui tacet consentit.] He who is silent agrees: Puffnutt the Merciless!

[Felix]

Oliver North is NO Patriot. I agree with Otto about that. They all should have been charged with treason. What would you call a Mayor who betrayed the interests of the very constituents who PUT HIM IN OFFICE OttO? I call him Kneedy! Kneedy Kennedy. He's a traitor but you love you some Mr. Kneedy don't you OttO?
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[otto]

You go from treason in DC to the Mayor of Rahway. Honestly, are you a scorned ex-lover of the Mayor? Ever want to boil a pet rabbit on Elm Street?
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80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on.

[Felix]

OttO are you as twisted as VNINNY? Don't answer that you already have. Is that as creative as you asswipes get? Dam YOUR wife must be bored as hell.
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[otto]

hey if you're gonna make me the new Vinny I'll have to start documenting the concerts I attend.

P.S. Don't expect my wife to engage in the unfortunate misadventures of correspondence.
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80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on.

[Felix]

OttO if you think i meant you literally loved the mayor SORRY. I meant as in he is your fearless leader. You have been taking some mean pills or something.
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[Felix]

Oh and OttO i find your penchent for holding national politico's feet to the fire while you give local officials you admittedly voted for a free pass. Get what I am driving at? It's relatively easy to throw stones at Washington from N.J. and in the current political climate Demonrat Headquarters it may be fashionable but it's NOT MORAL.
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[otto]

No I didn't take it that way.....though he is a fine looking man.

It's not Rep or Dem, it comes down to who is in and who is out. When the ins are there a long time there is a windfall. Let's get rid of political patronage. What party wants that? The outs might say they do until they're the ins and then they swap rhetoric. How many of those county jobs go to Dems if all the freeholders were Rep? That's just the way it is and do you know what, that's the way the system dictates.

Read any manifestos on better utopian forms of government lately?
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80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on.

[Felix]

Actually I have! It's called the Lincoln Party. It was a thesis so I don't expect the Afl-cio to adopt it anytime soon. It's professed Ideals arefiscal conservacy lessening the role of big government and returning some control to the states where people can BACKLASH at LOCAL politicians. I am at a loss to explain your horrible behaviour since you are saying you knew I wasn't imply you go down on the Mayor. When you suggest I HAD AN AFFAIR with a pervert YOU ARE bringing MY husband into it Mr. DOUBLE STANDARD.
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[Felix]

WASSAMADDA OttO? Cat got your toungue? Scapegoating is not a christian activity OttO. Mind your manners. I am interested in how you figure Kennedy LYING to the very people who elected him isn't treason though. I would like that explained. I mean he trashed their whole darn neighborhood.
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Those who do not remember history (now there's a word for YOU) are doomed to repeat it.

[otto]

For all I know you grew up with the Mayor and met your husband many years later. Really I was just throwing sarcasm at your fixation. To think there are politicians out there who lie to people is disturbing, thank God they're all Democrats, right.(lol)

Now lets agree on something, state's rights. The federal government supersedes state rights in constitutional matters. If the matter is not covered by the bill of rights or later admendments then that matter should be the sole responsibility of the states. The federal government quite often oversteps this founding notion of our democracy.

Getting back to the original topic. Rove and Weinburger violating the law and getting a "pass" is a m**tur**t of federal authority.
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80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don’t know what’s going on.